Interviewee: Anu Lamsal

Interviewer: Priyanka Shrestha

Date of Interview: 09/06/2022

Location of Interview: Washington D.C.

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Priyanka: To start off, can you tell me about where you grew up and where you are now?

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[00:00:05]

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Anu: Right. I grew up in the Midwest in Iowa predominantly, but I also lived in Wisconsin and Kansas for some periods of my life. So very predominantly White areas where I grew up and very much just like your typical American experience, when you think of what Iowa is like, you know, people associate it with lots of White people, lots of farming and things like that. And I think that is part of it, but I think honestly, what's pretty unique about the Midwest is that there's really a lot of Nepali people there. In my town, when I graduated high school, I think there was probably like 150 of us in just my town in Iowa. And we're not even the biggest town in Iowa. I think in the capital city in Des Moines was probably at least like 300, 400 people. And when I graduated high school, when I was a senior, there was five Nepali kids in my high school. And so, I've always grown up with Nepali people around me, Nepali kids around me and things like that. And I think for that, I took that for granted until I got to Georgetown and I realized, oh my god, this is not the case everywhere, because I had so many people tell me I was the first Nepali person they had ever met. And I was like, “Are you actually kidding me?” because they were from bigger cities than me, too. I had a friend from Las Vegas and big cities like Philadelphia, UTC, places like this, be like, “Yeah, I've never met a Nepali person.”

And to me, that was just really shocking. Cuz how I grew up is it was very much our community was very important to us. Like we would always hang out with each other, have people over for tea or playing cards or doing all these different things. And then I came here and in my year at Georgetown, so in the class of 2023, there's literally two Nepali students, me and one of my friends. So, it was so different from how I grew up. I kind of hated it at first. I was really like, there is no community here. Like, I don't know what to make of this, but me and my friend Shaily, the other Nepali girl in my grade, we were very determined to make it known that Nepali people existed here. So, we found the one—there was like one other Nepali guy who was a senior when we were freshman—and we hung out with him and we had like a momo night together.

So even when there was literally three of us in this entire Georgetown University—the entity, the institution, right—we still managed to find a sense of community within each other. And now that I'm a senior, I think there's four people that I know as Nepali people, but I've heard that there's a lot of new freshmen that are Nepali. I think there's at least—a lot is relative—there's like, I think three, but to me now that feels like a lot. I'm like, “Woah, there's like seven of us here!” That's kind of crazy because Georgetown is very much not like that.

Especially, the South Asian community at Georgetown, very heavily Indian dominated. And it felt very isolating as a Nepali student because they did not prioritize any non-Indian South Asian countries in any of their programming or their educational events and things like that. So, I think that was one of the big things that we really emphasized. ‘We’ being me and the other Nepali people here. We really just wanted people to acknowledge the existence of non-Indian South Asian students at Georgetown. And I think by now, we've built our own little, tiny community that is very determined to make it known that we're here.

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[00:04:02]

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Priyanka: And going back little, can you talk about, as you were growing up, what were your interactions like with the Nepali community where you lived?

 

Anu: Yeah, so I—we were very heavily involved in the Nepali community because I live in a town, a college town. And the college Iowa State University is in my town. And I think that is the reason why there are so many Nepali people in my area because a lot of them come to do their studies there. So, because of that, there was always almost like a rotational amount of Nepali people coming in, like some would come in and stay and raise their families here, but some also come in, do their PhD or their masters or whatever, and then go somewhere else as well. So, I think the Nepali community from when I was much younger, like five or six, looks pretty different from how it looks now back home. Because when I was younger, there was a lot of families, like a lot of people with kids my age, and a lot of those people moved away and new people came and replaced them. And as one of the only families that have been there since like 2009, so… I don't know, how many years is that? 13 years ago. We've very much seen the development of the Nepali community there because before my parents moved there, there really wasn't that much of a Nepali community.

And then I guess by circumstance, a lot of Nepali families had moved to Ames (Ames, Iowa) that year. And at the university we formed like a Nepali Students Association. And through that we host seasonal potlucks and things like that. So, we will literally gather the whole community, go to a nearby state park and from breakfast until dinner, just stay there and make every meal together. We'll go hiking. We'll go swimming. We'll just spend the whole day together. So, I think my experience growing up has very much been like, we are going to form this community. Like we will be there for each other in that sense and we've very much have forged new traditions as well because I remember, I think when we were first in Ames and when I was like five or six, we had during Tihar, we would all go play deusi bhailo, right. And that was with when all of those families with kids our age were there. So, we would all go and play it, but then those families moved away and there was like a small period of time where there wasn't that many Nepali families anymore. But I think when I was around twelve there was some more Nepali people and more of a community at that point. So literally just my family and two people who we were really close with who were young as well. We were like, we're gonna start this tradition again. And we, just us, went around doing deusi bhailo at everyone's house in the community. And the year after that, it became a thing again. And so we did the whole like gather everyone from this house and gather from that house and then it all ends at my family's house. At that point, and now too, my family is like the elders in the town because a lot of people are younger. So, a lot of people will come to our house just to come and be together. Our house has definitely turned into like a community spot for that.

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[00:07:36]

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Priyanka: Yeah, that's fun! Your house is, your whole family, is very involved and active in the community. Going off that, with your family, how about inside your house? How did you interact with the Nepali heritage and culture with your family and parents?

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Anu: Yeah, I definitely think I have always been heavily involved with Nepali heritage and culture because my parents never let us not be. They were very, they thought it was very important to learn how to speak the language and things like that. But I do think there was a period in time when I was in middle school where I heavily rejected Nepali culture, mostly because I was, as I said, grew up in a very predominantly White area and I was very…didn't want to feel even more isolated from other students than I already felt. So, I stopped speaking Nepali for a period of time. And I think that, that period of not speaking it, has also had its repercussions till now. Because now I don't know [Nepali] as well either, even though I understand it fully and I'm still fluent, I'm just not as confident in speaking it anymore because I went a period of time where I would not acknowledge that I knew how to speak the language and things like that. But I think in terms of preserving cultural traditions and rituals and festivals and things like that, we have always been really big on that. We've always done Dashain really big. We've done Tihar really big. Everything. We have always been very head first, enthusiastic. We're gonna do it. So, yeah, I think my parents have definitely prioritized us knowing our culture and us being accustomed with different Nepali traditions. I think that they do that a lot through food as well, because a lot of the stuff that people, a lot of Nepali people I know, will just go and buy at the Indian mart, we will make at home like lalmon we make at home instead of buying it. Because we're like, “It tastes better at home.” So, we just make it. So, I think there's always been a very big emphasis on knowing our heritage.

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[00:09:51]

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Priyanka: Do you have any specific examples of traditions or things at home that you really enjoy doing or you think really helped you stay connected?

 

Anu: Um, hmm, let me see. I always…I think even till now my favorite time of year is Tihar, I think this might be very uniquely my community in Iowa, but around Tihar Dahsain time is when we go and get goats, right. Because we all eat khasi around that time. I did not realize it until I went to college that a lot of people who lived in bigger areas would just go to a butcher's and get their goats from a butcher. That was not like… we didn't even have a butcher's market like that, so we would physically go to a farm and find goats and bring them. So, because of that, every time after my dad and my mom would go and get the goats for the Dashain season, they would sit there and skin the goat, clean the goat, do all of these different things, package it all up for the next couple of months. And that was always one of my favorite days/times of year, because I just really loved the fact— cuz it was kind of like a marker to me that now this is when the holiday season has truly started, when we would bring the goats home and cut them up and get them ready to be cooked. I think it's not really a typical tradition, but I think because of how often we do that and how important it is for like staying connected to Nepali cuisine and things like that, it has become a really big thing for me to just get really excited when we bring the goats home and when the smell of cooking, the goats starts going through the air. I think that has become one of my favorite things.

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[00:11:48]

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Priyanka: You mentioned that in middle school, kind of, you had a time when you did reject a lot of Nepali traditions and things like that. And what was it that made you want to reconnect?

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Anu: Hmm. I think one of the biggest things was just going into high school and kind of growing up a little. I realized that it was my Nepali identity that made me unique and set me apart from a lot of my peers. And I wanted to embrace that a lot more than I wanted to reject it at that point, because I think I grew a lot more comfortable in who I was as a person too, in just in terms of my own girlhood and things like that, that made me initially reject my Nepali identity because I was so desperate on like fitting in with what being a White girl is like, you know. So, I think, growing up a bit in high school and being like, I actually do like how I am definitely helped bring me back to the culture because I think as my self-confidence developed, I also became less insecure about not being White or being just like strictly a White American, you know?

And even through the years that I was not as proud of my Nepali heritage, I still was very involved in it because I would do like a dance every year in our Asian heritage festival. We would go all out for that. And I still, even in middle school, I still really enjoyed Dashain Tihar time. And so, there was a part of me that wanted to really fit in, but that also really liked the traditions and things that I was a part of at home. And so, I think gaining the self confidence in high school really helped bring me back to it and not be as afraid of embracing it. Cuz I also started surrounding myself with more diverse friends as well, because my friend group in middle school was much more White dominated. But once I got to high school, a lot of my friends, my friend groups, were mostly other Asian people or other people of color. Like I had a lot of, oh, strangely, a lot of Korean people lived in my town. So, I had a lot of Korean friends. I had Black friends. I had Latino friends. I just started surrounding myself with people who also came from diverse cultures. And I think that also helped me be like, no, I really do like this thing about me that puts me as apart from the rest of my peers.

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Priyanka: Do you think there was like a time when you kind of took self-agency? Making an effort to, you know, be more involved in the Nepali community and learn traditions and things like that. Because I feel like for me, when I was younger, my family was also super involved in the community, right. When I was younger it's a lot of your parents were like, “Oh, we're gonna celebrate this. We're gonna do this,” right. You know, it's super fun. You just kind of go along with it. But as you're older, a lot of it comes down to you, especially when you to college and you get to take control of what you're doing.

 

Anu: Right. I definitely do think so. I became a lot more interested in learning my traditions at that point too. Cuz I think up until that point, I was participating in them, but not necessarily knowing the background behind it or knowing how to do it on my own. And I think a big part of learning my traditions was also my Queer identity, because I fastly realized that there could possibly be a point in time where I'm not as readily accepted within the Nepali community, like after coming out. So, I think because of that, I really prioritized taking this time and knowing, and learning the things about my culture, because I think even if there is a point in time where I'm not as heavily accepted within the community anymore, I would still want to take part in the traditions of my heritage and my culture and things like that.

So, I think that's definitely why I started being more involved in the Dashain ceremonies or the Tihar ceremonies and learning why we do each thing and how we do each thing. And another thing is learning how to cook Nepali food and things like that. Like recipes from your mom and your dad that they might not always be there to teach you. So, I think I really started prioritizing making sure I learn it now. Because I think the idea of it, of possibly not always having that source—meaning like your parents or your grandparents to teach you—it really made me like prioritize learning it. Yeah.

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[00:16:47]

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Priyanka: Have you been able to interact more with the Queer Nepali community?

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Anu: I want to, but the thing is, it's very hard to find because there's one other Queer Nepali student at Georgetown that I know, and it's been great with them because we really relate on talking about like homophobia within the Nepali community and things like that. And having that sense of comradery really…I was so happy when they started at Georgetown last year, cuz they're two years younger than me. And I just really have always been craving that. And, hopefully someday I'll be able to be more involved in it, but I think it's very hard to find, especially because a lot of people remain closeted because of fear of being rejected by their community and by their families. So, it's a lot harder to for Queer Nepali people.

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[00:17:49]

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Priyanka: Yeah. Are there certain things in Nepali culture that maybe you do now still reject or that you feel like growing in the U.S. has given you like a new perspective on?

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Anu: I think definitely. I have never enjoyed how patriarchal Nepali society is and how I don't know, like male dominated it is, right. And I have been fighting my dad with it since I was a freshman in high school. Cuz I used to be a very shy child until I joined my debate team in high school. And I became really talkative all of a sudden. And my dad was like, “Where did that come from?” Cuz I was super shy, but through my debate team, and I also had joined the feminist club at my high school. So, I was learning all of these, things like I already believed in—feminist values and things like that—but now I had a community through which I could discuss it with at high school. So, I started being more confident in my ability to defend my beliefs. So, I would fight my dad on things like doing a chore simply because I am the girl because I have two brothers, right, so I'm the only daughter. And my dad, sometimes he would be like, “Anu, you have to do this.” And I would be like, “Why can't [my brother] do it? He's closer.” Or say if it's something like getting a dish or something. And my older brother was closer, he would be like, “Cuz, you're the girl.”

And I was like, no, no, no, no. So, once I was in high school, I really started fighting him on that. And I would push him. I was like, “What do you mean by that? Why does it have to be that just because I'm the girl I have to do it.” And I think that he also started changing the way he thought, too. Because I started fighting him on it and because I started pushing him to defend why he thought, how he thought. So now, this was…I was a freshman in high school, like years ago at this point. I don't know, like eight years ago or something. So, now at the point where I'm at now, my dad has also grown a lot and he wouldn't say anymore, like you have to do this just because you're the girl. He is much more willing to see my perspective. And so, I think that there are definitely certain values within the Nepali community that growing up in America has allowed me to like push against more. But I do think that there are a lot of really badass people growing up in Nepal who also push up against it. Cuz I know like my cousins, they would definitely also fight their dads to be like, “No, this isn't what you should think”, right. So, I think it's also like a generational thing that as we grow older and have access to more things, more like educational things via the internet and things like that, we are just more likely to think a bit more differently than previous generations and push previous generations to defend what they think and in that—pushing them to do so—that's where I think the most conversation happens when you push up against something that has been there for so many generations.

It takes a really long time to erode at that construct that has shaped society and principle for a really long time. But eventually through years of fighting matches with your dad in the kitchen, you know, eventually it'll get to the point where he won't say anymore, you have to do this just because you're the girl or you have to do this because I said so as like the patriarch of the family, you know. So, I have become a lot more emboldened to speak my mind because of how I grew up, too. I think because my dad did let me fight him too, instead of just—I know a lot of Nepali families, they would just like shut it down or punish anyone for speaking out against them—so I do have to give my dad credit in letting me yell at him so much. But I think in having that space given to me to express what I thought has definitely let me grow in my own confidence and in my own values and principles and has also made me less afraid of speaking against things that I don't like about traditional Nepali principles, like the racism, the homophobia, the sexism, things like that. Like things that are very inherent to most countries at this point. I'm like it's time to start dismantling besties.

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[00:22:38]

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Priyanka: Yeah, no, the chore thing reminds me…the one that always gets me is when you have company over and then the women girls are expected to serve the water, the food. Yeah. Hopefully we can, we can change it, be the generation that brings the change.

After all your experiences growing so far what does being Nepali mean to you and how you interpret that?

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Anu: Right, I think, um, hmm, let me think. I definitely value being Nepali a lot. I think it's very central to my identity currently, but I do also think my experience of being Nepali is very influenced by my other identities as well. So, like for example, my identity as a lesbian and as a non-binary person, I think have definitely influenced how I experienced being Nepali, because I was telling one of my friends this that like in two different veins, right? I feel like a Nepali woman, even though I identify as non-binary mostly because I was socialized as a Nepali woman specifically throughout my entire life. And I have grown up very much in entrenched in those like traditions. And I do also feel like a sense of camaraderie and bonding with other Nepali women because of that shared experience of how we have all been socialized. So, I think there's still some part of me that's identifies as Nepali woman, even as a non-binary person.

But on the other hand, because of my identity, as a non-binary lesbian, I think I don't fully identify with the Nepali woman experience anymore because I think there are certain things that I just don't relate with as in having an arrange marriage with a man and things like that. Or going along with what the patriarch of your family says and being submissive to the patriarch of your family. I think my lesbian identity, that has very much de-centered men in my own personal life where I don't prioritize their comfort or their perspectives as much. I think because of that, I differ from the Nepali woman experience because I'm less willing to give into the patriarchs. My family, too. As I said, I'm very willing to fight on it and I will fight on it. I think, to the point where my own aunts are like, “Why are you still fighting this?” And I'm like, because I don't believe in it. Like, it doesn't make sense to me, so I will continue to fight it. I think my Queer identity has definitely influenced that, and so because of the intersection of my queerness and my Nepali identity, I have like a kind of unique experience or understanding of what it means to being Nepali. Cuz to me it means like standing against what you don't believe in. I think that has become a very central part of my identity as a Nepali person, like making it known that this is what I don't support, and this is what I do believe in and standing firm in that I think has been a really big thing for me personally.

I think also taking the Nepali culture and using it as…still using it as a guiding principle. Once you like take away the racism, the sexism, the homophobia, there are a lot of cultural values that I still very much value and still use to guide my own thinking and experience. So, I think like to me being Nepali means taking all of the best parts of Nepali culture and using that to kind of guide my thinking and thought into what Nepali culture can be outside of dropping very colonial, patriarchal constructions. I think it's just a very, very much…I take pride in my identity and very much will continue to take pride in my identity but will also enjoy holding my community accountable to being better and doing better for ourselves and for other people as well.

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Priyanka: And in closing, I always ask or open up the space to, if there's anything that you wanted to share or anything you think is important to your story that we didn't get to talk about, the floor is yours.

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Anu: I think the main thing is, as I've already said, being a Queer Nepali person has been very central to my experience of the Nepali community and has also led to a fear of losing that Nepali community that I so cherish, you know, especially because of how deeply intertwined I grew up within Nepali community. Like I grew up with aunties and uncles always coming in and out of our doors and having sleepovers with the other Nepali kids in the community. I think all of those things that I cherish are very important to me still, but now that I more so embrace my Queer identity, I also have this, fear of losing all of that because of deeply entrenched homophobia in Nepali culture. So, I think that mindset has really guided how I treat my Nepali identity these days. I still treat it as something to be proud of and something to embrace and something to shape my own identity, but I also take it as something that I personally have to work to preserve, to pass on to my own children or to create community with other Queer Nepali people, because I might not always have these like elders within the community to help guide me.

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[00:29:10]

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Priyanka: Actually, sorry! I thought of one more question.

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Anu: Oh yeah?

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Priyanka: Which is, have you noticed, since coming out, if you have interactions with the non-queer Nepali community, have you noticed changes or anything like that?

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Anu: Well, I did come out to my parents in like my junior year of high school. It did not go well. And I think I definitely noticed, I think that's when that fear of losing community became instilled in me because before that I was, I didn't even really think about the possibility of not always being within my community, but I think after coming out and not having it go how I wanted it to go, that's when I started thinking about like, “Oh, this is not always guaranteed. This is not always going to be here.” I definitely noticed for a brief period of time, a shift in how my parents treated me. Like now they've gotten to the point where they just ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist. And I'm like, it still exists. It's gonna be a bad reminder in a couple of years, you know? But, um—

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Priyanka: My parents do that as well…

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Anu: —they're like, “Yeah, you told us technically, but we're not gonna acknowledge that you told us.” I think after getting to this point where it's like, everyone knows that I've already said it, but no one really wants to talk about it and no one's really acknowledging it. That's to me even more apparent, that's kind of like a precarious position that I'm in that where if I like do decide to push it and be like, “Hey, remember when I told you this,” that I could potentially lose my connection to my family or my community and things like that. So, I think coming out has definitely changed my mindset around how I see Nepali community as well. I see it as something that could go away when before I was like, it's always gonna be here.

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[00:31:05]

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Priyanka: Yeah. Thank you so much for interviewing.