Interviewee: Shyam Karki

Interviewer: Priyanka Shrestha

Date: 09/10/2022

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[00:00:00]

 

Priyanka: You can begin. Please tell us a little about where you grew up in Nepal and where you did your schooling.

 

Shyam: In Kupondole in Nepal. Do you know Kupondole? It’s opposite Kathmandu Bagmati in Patan. Patan. There is a Bagmati River in Kathmandu, you know?

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Priyanka: Yes.

 

Shyam: On one side is Kathmandu, on the other side is Patan.

 

Priyanka: Oh yeah. It is.

 

Shyam: I’m from Kupondole. Just across. I grew up across the river in Kathmandu in a place called Kupondole.

 

Priyanka: And did you do your schooling there? Plus 2 and all?

 

Shyam: I did my high school there and went to Beirut to study college.

 

Priyanka: Yes.

 

Shyam: In Beirut I did my Bachelors in Pharmacy and came to Nepal and worked for five years. And then I came here.

 

Priyanka: In which year did you come to the US?

 

Shyam: ‘75

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Priyanka: In 1975? At that time, why did you come?

 

Shyam: I didn’t like it in Nepal, and so I came here to work.

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Priyanka: What was the process like to come here from Nepal at that time?

 

Shyam: There used to be a special visa. Since I studied in the American University, I fell into a special category. I could apply for a green card. There was some assessment, and I was given a green card while I was still in Nepal. And I came here with that green card.

 

Priyanka: Had you been to the US before that or not?

 

Shyam: I hadn’t. I studied in American University Beirut. Then I worked in Nepal for 5-6 years. Then I came here. And I came here and started working.

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Priyanka: What work did you used to do in Nepal?

 

Shyam: I’m a pharmacist by training. I worked in the Wild Rocks FACES Lab. And then I came here and worked in the pharmacy.

 

Priyanka: In the pharmacy, okay. And at that time, when you came to America from Nepal for the first time, what was your first reaction like? How did you feel right after coming here?

 

Shyam: Something different but since I studied in American University, I was used to the system here. Not too many surprises, but in the first year I came here, there was a recession going on. So, at that time, it was a bit difficult to get a job. It took me around 6 months to get a job. We who came from over there used to think that we will get a job immediately if we have a degree. But here they told us you need a license. So, I had to go get a license. But over there, we could work directly on a degree basis. After coming here, you acquire a degree, but then you have to go to the board to get a license, get the license, do a 6-month internship before going to the board. All the requirements - we didn’t know anything about it in Nepal at that time. The kids today know a lot. At our time, we didn’t know anything about here. We found it out and learned about it after coming here. And at that time there weren’t many Nepalese. I was the first Nepali who came in my line. So, I didn’t know what to do. Now if a Nepali comes in my line today, I can tell him, do this, do that. Since I was the first pharmacist to come, no one knew what to do. I had to find it all by myself. What I need to do, what is a board, what is a license, how to get one, what is an internship. I went on learning about it, finding out about it. It was rough and tough. But it was alright. But there weren’t many Nepalis here either. When I came, there were probably around 500 Nepalis in all of America. I came to DC. There were less than 100 Nepalis in DC.

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Priyanka: And did you get to meet with other Nepalese at that time?

 

Shyam: Yes, we had meetups. In parties, in Dashain. Since we were a few, even if we were far apart, everyone was called, no one was left out. Everyone knew each other. And we couldn’t speak Nepali like we can now. Nowadays, we can meet Nepalese anywhere. At that time, it was difficult even to meet a Nepali. So, we used to meet. I used to stay with a friend who came before me. So, we had connections. We used to invite each other and asked to bring our friends along everywhere we went.

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Priyanka: Was it hard for you to assimilate to the laws, social aspects, and cultural stuff when coming to the US? How did you learn how to do things here?

 

Shyam: It wasn’t very hard, because I studied in the American University Beirut in ‘64-69. So, in one way, the formalities were already in my system. So, I felt more comfortable with the American educational system there. So, I knew what it would be like here. And 5-6 months after coming here, I got a job. And I started working, did my internship, got my license and started.

 

[0:05:00]

 

Shyam: And from there I called my family. It wouldn’t make sense to bring them until I had a job. I had come alone. After I got a job, I called them. And slowly, slowly. One another thing about me, since I had [Unintelligible] in New York, since New York considered me their own domestic graduate, I had facilities in New York. And there I could take the license directly. In other places, there was the hassle of needing to qualify my degree again. And so, I took the license of New York and searched for a job in New York. I came here in ‘75 and in ‘79 I went to work in Rochester New York as a pharmacist. Before that, I did pharmacist internship, training, and spent time looking for work. And at that time when I went to Rochester, I was probably the only Nepali there.

 

Priyanka: There in Rochester?

 

Shyam: Yeah, I was there. And one Nepali was in Kerning. To meet a Nepali in Dashain, we had to drive 2 hours.

 

Priyanka: At that time, how did you celebrate Dashain, Tihar?

 

Shyam: In the first year, I was in Washington DC. Our friend was in Kerning. I used to share an apartment with my doctor friend. And his classmate was at Kerning, an ENT surgeon. And he took me there. There was a Nepali doctor there. And from a little farther 2 hours away was another Nepali doctor. And about 4-5 families from around gathered together for Dashain. And we sat, talked, ate meat, cut the goat, right? It was fun because I had left Nepal in August and in October, we celebrated Dashain. And the phone system wasn't as advanced as today. If I had to call Nepal, I would have to call from Washington to New York, from New York to Delhi, Delhi to Kathmandu and Kathmandu to my house. Sometimes, I had to wait 2-3 days for all the connections to take place. It’s not like today where you can just pick up a phone and send it. It’s so easy, right? It was so hard to make phone calls at that time. So, it’s such a big difference.

 

 

Priyanka: Compared to that time, there must be a lot more Nepalese where you live now?

 

Shyam: In the whole of America, there must be around 4-5 lakh Nepalis, 5 lakhs, including the Bhutanese, who I also call Nepalese because they speak Nepali. Because, off the subject, last year I formed the Nepali-Bhutanese National Council to campaign for Biden. When I calculated everything, in almost 5 lakhs, 1 lakh were Nepali and Bhutanese voters. So, there’s a big population of Nepalis today compared to that time. When the Maoists came, a lot of Nepalese fled. And the lottery system made it easier for Nepalese to come. Before that, only people with special education could come, others couldn’t. And that opened a big gate here and a lot of Nepalese began coming here in the late ‘80s and 90’s.

 

Priyanka: Did you say you made the council to get votes for President Biden?

 

Shyam: I’m active in politics here. I’m active. Because America is a democratic country. If you aren’t active, no relations to you. I learned relations in that. Let me tell you a funny story. Because after I came here, I called my younger sister, younger brother, both, all of them. And they were called in the embassy to interview. And they lacked some document, and were told to bring the document or else they would all be returned. And they called me very disappointed that the embassy told them that. I also didn’t know much about it. So, I went to my Congress woman to understand what was going on. And in America, if you are a doctor, lawyer, they listen to you well. And so, I told her what happened to me. I told her I needed to send a certificate and I would send it by courier but since the embassy had talked like that, I was suspicious about things. So, if you could send it through your office,

 

[0:10:00]

 

Shyam: I would feel more comfortable. Because no one would understand me, but it would be considered big if it was sent by the Congress woman. So, I asked her to send it and told her I would pay the cost for sending it.

 

Priyanka: To the congress woman?

 

Shyam: To the congress woman. I was in Rochester. I had friends who knew the Congress woman well. And I had a good impression in Rochester as a pharmacist scientist. And she was very sympathetic after hearing me and thought he has stayed in America for this long and when he called his one family here, the embassy told them this and he has come to tell me about it. He even offered to pay on his own. And she told me, you don’t need to worry, I will send it, keep your money, I will take care of it. And she wrote and sent a letter. And I called home and told them what had happened and told them to go. And they went. And after they went, I asked what happened. And they said they didn’t even ask us anything, they just stamped it. And I realized at that time, that this happened not because of me but, because of her name. I have no ego. It wasn’t because of my name, but because of her name. A Congresswoman here was a big thing here, someone I needed to know. I had my own experience. So, my contact with them began growing a lot. And so, I began getting involved a lot.

 

Priyanka: Do you know other Nepalese who are active in politics?

 

Shyam: We are a lot. We are a group. For example, when in Nepal King Gyanendra made a coupe and shut everyone up and did this democracy thing. There is NRA. Do you know NRA?

 

Priyanka: Yeah

 

Shyam: I am the founding vice president of NRA. At that time, I gave a statement that we should support democracy and oppose it. After that NRA did not like it and Sushil Koirala became the president of the congress party in Nepal and even the prime minister. He had come here in exile and he stayed in my home. I kept him in my home and by that time I had already known the Senator and Congressman. And I took him to them and introduced them and pleaded for Nepal’s case. And because of that I already had a group following me to plead about Nepal.  And later on, someone said, you need to run for election here. And I said I don’t want to run; you need a young person for that. I am called older brother by most; some call me older brother and some call me uncle. I have already aged. So, one said, if you won’t run, shall I run? So, I said OKAY run. So, he ran for Maryland’s state assembly. We lost the first election. Because we didn’t have experience. We had encouragement, zeal, but didn’t know a lot of things. I had managed the election campaign. I raised almost 1 lakh by fundraising. I also gave a lot. We lost by 300 votes. In the next one, we won. Now our first Nepali who won in the assembly was Harry Bhandari. I was still the campaign manager of Maryland district. After him, someone slipped in, you know. Now I am involved in the governor campaign, I am a commissioner of the governor. What I did in Biden’s campaign was, wherever the democratic party had won but lost only by a little, by 4-5% votes, I chose 6 states where the Nepali population was equal to the votes needed to win. That was all we campaigned. And in 2 states, our Nepali’s votes made the difference. That was very satisfying to us. There is a group called Asian American Pacific Islander within the democratic party. I am a member of the Maryland leadership council. And I am the chair of that group in Baltimore County. And when I showed that, the AAPI chief was very impressed. And he took me to the democratic party and made me present that. And they were very supportive, and I had not asked for any money. And when there was a debate about the primary in Columbus, the party sent me there.

 

 

[0:15:00]

 

 

Shyam: I was introduced to the party candidate. My Mrs. and I went there and got acquainted with them. A Nepali had run for election from Columbus in the local. I campaigned for him, and I introduced him to the party’s president. He campaigned. Bhuwan. You don’t know him. He was Bhuwan in Columbus, a Bhutanese. He won in a city called Reynoldsburg. Wherever a Nepali rises, my guarantee is, I will go at my personal expense to campaign for him. In a democratic country, if you are not involved, no relations to you. And so, I say that, one thing you have to get involved. Secondly, everyone pays taxes. From those taxes everything is funded. And what I say is, if we don’t do it, someone else will take my money. I need to be able to go there and campaign. We bring 1.5 lakh for him, 3 lakhs for him and funded. So, we learned, if we don’t bring it, someone else will take that money. The fund is there, someone will take it. So, it’s our money, and if we don’t go there, someone else will take it. But one thing which is a bit difficult here is, most Nepalese here are more interested in Nepal’s politics than the politics of here. I tell them, what will you get from being interested in Nepal’s politics? You just say thank you thank you when you come. That’s all in Nepal. You will have nothing. You are here. Your children are here. Your future is here. You need to be active here. And that’s meaningful. That’s what I always do most. We’re not to just preserve our culture here. You got to be active. But when it comes to politics, you need to be involved right here or else it won’t have any meaning, I say.

 

Priyanka: Mhm.. How can Nepali’s be more active in politics here in the future?

 

Shyam: Slowly slowly. First of all, parents used to be only interested in making their children doctors or engineers. But we need to learn that doctors and engineers are not all, public light is also very important. Because the whole country's policies are made by whoever goes to the public light. So, if any Nepali wants to do an internship in Congress, I will help him. Because to be active, you also need the learning process. We learned by trial and error. But if you do an internship as a congressman, you can get to know all the people. Just like in Nepal’s democracy moment, I used to go meet Congressmen. Need to call them, and all. And I met an Indian, and he had also helped me some. If it was a daughter from Nepal, and asked to meet his son, he would know the Congressman he works for. Or else, he has his circle of friends. If I say Oh, I have someone to meet , can we arrange to have him meet? He would arrange that. But we had to start from zero. And so, I say, if any young person wants to go into politics, we need to encourage them and move them up. Now how to take them up there? If there are any Nepali, let’s have them do an internship. We need to encourage our youngsters not only in the technical line but also in the public line, where there is a lot to be done. And open the way for that. In America, it all depends on who you know. In Nepal, it depends on who you pay but who you know makes a big difference here. The Indians already have formed such a network unlike the Nepalis. We are just in the beginning. The first generation is still stuck in Nepali politics. And the culture also is leg pulling, destroying more than building up, a lot of jealousy. We need to change that and send Nepali youngsters and we'll have to start somewhere.

 

Priyanka: Do you see that Nepali younger generations are changing?

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Shyam: They are coming. I told you I did Nepali-Bhutanese campaign. Now we have changed to PAN Nepali National Council. Because when Nepalese come here from Bhutan, Nepal, Singapore, Hong Kong, Burma. When they come here, we can’t say this Nepali, that Nepali.  When we count them all together as Nepali, what happens is our number grows. In democracy, numbers speak. If there was no Nepali here, who would listen to me? I would be only one. One vote from me will not matter to him. Or he should like me personally. What’s going on now is for example, I’m meeting him.

 

[0:20:00]

 

Shyam: Because he has almost 5-10,000 votes right here of Nepalis. Plus, because I’m from AAPI, there will be almost 50 thousand votes in Baltimore County alone from AAPI. I have no ego in him listening to me. I am not big; they are not listening to me. They listen to me because he might get 50,000 votes. Who would care about me? I don’t have that ego. In Nepalese, we sometimes have ego. But I don’t have that. He wants those votes. But if I speak, people will believe it. It’s been a long time since I've lived here. And so, it’s happening. But it takes time. Slowly slowly its building. One Nepali is  [unintelligible]. We put another in Central Country Park. When we called [unintelligible], he came. I called him in the temple last time, and will call him again this Dashain and ask him to declare a Hindu Heritage month. He has written and delivered it and is doing it again. It comes back to the same thing. He needs to know me. And he needs to know that if I speak, this many people will listen to what I say. And it's coming slowly. It takes time. It’s starting to change a bit. In the second generation. It won’t happen much in the first generation. I feel like I’m alone sometimes in the first generation. Because people my age are more into Nepali politics.

 

Priyanka: What motivates you to be this active? Especially when you say that there aren’t many supporters in the first generation.

 

Shyam: People are different. I tell my friends; I am 76 above. Most people I know are 45, 50. And I tell them, in age you are like my sons, but in thinking I am like your son. I think like your son. Because most people who are 45-50, they studied in Nepal, and did post graduate here and lived here. But I came to college here and I grew up with the same thinking and culture as their sons. So, I tell them, in age I am like your parent but in behavior I am like your child. I think like that, I tell them. I tease them. And I also had a good career in Nepal. I left it to come here. I like this, so I left it. Or else who would leave it. So, wherever you go, you have to give back to it. And other things are, you have to be ready to give. My whole life I spent in Nepali public light; I have plain records. Even those who don’t like me, don’t agree with me, they say, I might not agree, but that person is clean. He won’t do any mischief. I have their faith. So, they listen to me. And I always help anyone who needs help. That’s my habit. I like doing that. That’s the mission of anyone in healthcare. You have to love helping others. Your father is also a doctor, right? So, you have to have that from inside to be in the healthcare or life becomes bore.

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Priyanka: And one last question I ask everyone. What does it mean to you to be Nepali?

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Shyam: In a sense, I’m Nepali because I come from Nepal. I strongly feel for our Nepali. There is sometimes belittling from people because we are Nepali. I sometimes say, Nepali we are poor, we come from a poor country. But as a person, I always say, we are no less than anyone else. And we shouldn’t just celebrate Nepali festivals when we are in Nepal. We need to celebrate it in foreign land. Because they have to know who we are. Or else it will be like a frog in a well. He stays inside the well and says he is big and good. But nobody sees it. So, all the things we Nepalese do, and say this is good, that is good by ourselves. It works in Nepal, but it doesn’t work when you come here. Other people should know who we are and what kind of people we are too. And our neighbors should know who we are, what kind of people we are. And they should see our culture and see that we are like one of them. They have the same kind of culture, same tradition, they love their family, they are like us.

 

 

[0:25:00]

 

Shyam: When they know that, then they feel comfortable. Or else, they will feel like where did these people come from, what are they doing? There are disconnections and all. We have gone through that. The past things have changed. In our own temple, we are fighting a 5-year case. It happens everywhere. But it’s a part of the process. But what can you do? you just have to go through it. When it comes to Indians and Nepalis, I feel like we are who we are. We are who we are and we have to be proud of who we are. And we need to learn to respect the pride of other people. Just like I have pride in Nepal, another person has the same pride in his country. I need to respect that. Because just like how much I love my country, he has love for his country too. And we need to respect each other. It’s a two-way process. In my own family, I already have people from 8 different countries. When you come here, it happens. One of my daughters is married to Romanians. His parents are Romanian. Another daughter is married to an Indian. My niece is married to a Polish person. Another married to an Irish. And one thing in Nepal, nowadays people have their own districts, he comes from Baglung, this person is from here, this person from there, that district. Everyone has their own district. I don’t like that. Because within my own family I embrace people from 10 different countries as my family. And I don’t like it one bit when Nepalese say you are this and that within themselves. I am very vocal on that. We can meet, but if you discriminate, I won’t come. I don’t even go. Because I don’t like it. And I also say that, it’s only you. Your children won’t listen to anything. Because those who are raised here, to recognize Nepal is already a big thing. To recognize this district and that district within Nepal itself, nobody’s children are going to listen. I tell them you are just wasting time in redundant work. Some people like it. Some people don’t. It’s just what things are like.

 

Priyanka: Of course. I tell everyone, is there anything you want to add or talk about?

 

Shyam: I’ve been living in America for almost 50 years now. So much amazing experience, memories. There’s a lot, of course. There’s a lot. And because I came early, I became the first in everything. Because there was no one. I was the first Nepali to run the marathon. I ran the marathon in 2000. Both my daughters and both son in laws ran the marathon. In the family, when you do one thing, it is followed on. I ran the marathon. Both my daughters ran the marathon. My son in laws ran the marathon. So, I got to be involved in a lot of things. It was God’s blessing and everyone’s love. Everyone who sees me calls me Shyam Dai, loves me. That’s the biggest thing for me.