Interviewee: Pramila and Sudeep Sharma

Interviewer: Priyanka Shrestha

Date: 07/29/2022

Location: Dallas, Texas

 

Priyanka: (translated from Nepali) you both start by talking a little about where you grew up in Nepal when you were little, and how was it there?

 

Sudeep: Okay, let me go first. I was born and raised in a city in the western part of Nepal called Nepalgunj. I lived in my home town for almost 15 years. After I received my high school degree, I moved to Kathmandu. So that's my background.

 

Pramila: I was born and raised in Kathmandu. Lived my life in Kathmandu. Went to school and college in Kathmandu. So basically all Kathmandu.

 

Priyanka: So you were both in Kathmandu. From there, when did you come to the U.S. or when did you decide to come to the U.S.?

 

Sudeep: Let me give you a brief story about myself. I'll try to be short. I came to Kathmandu to attend this reputable science college called ASCOL (Amrit Science College). Joined the college and studied biology for a couple of years. While I was doing that, I had some friends with a similar mindset. So they were thinking about going to the U.S. by applying to colleges and things like that. So they were maybe a year ahead of me, and I learned from them some of the steps that you would have to take in order to come to the U.S. and study.

I came because it was the only option. It wasn't like I had many options available. It's just that I chose to come to the U.S. because it was a big deal. Back then, not too many people would come to the U.S. to study. I think I was the fourth person on that day to apply for a visa at the embassy. But the thing is, when I was studying at Amrit Science College, one of my friends went to the U.S., and I followed in his steps. I got accepted at a university in Oklahoma called University of Central Oklahoma. My parents were excited. They funded my trip, gave me some money. Then the biggest hurdle would've been getting the visa. I'm just gonna call myself lucky. Because when I went there, I received the visa without any hesitation. After getting the visa on January 7th of 1991, I flew from Nepal, leaving my family behind. I landed on January 9th, 1991, in Cole, Oklahoma.

 

Priyanka: Can you describe more? As you were studying biology in Nepal, what about the U.S. excited you, or what made you want to go through that process and apply for the visa and come all the way here?

 

Sudeep: So that's a great question. I think the main reason would be to do something for my life. Opportunities back home in Nepal were not all that great for, for many people. You could be an excellent student, or you could have all these skills and knowledge, it would've still been a struggle to find a job. I felt like staying in the country (Nepal) was not gonna be a good thing for me or make my life better than it was as a student at college. So in order to keep growing, I needed a good education. When I learned about this process, that you could go through to go to the U.S., that was pretty exciting. The only thing that I had in mind was making my life better and not having to deal with things that I could not really do in Nepal.

 

Priyanka: And same question for you.

 

Pramila: Actually, I was doing my bachelor's, and one of the sisters was already here. We have seven sisters in my family. So I'm the third one. My oldest one was already here. So there was already a door open. I told myself I have to go to the U.S. and be like my sister. So I was doing my bachelor's. She was here, and these guys connected but that is another story. So he came to Nepal and it was an arranged marriage. Then, I guess I ended up getting married and then I came to the U.S.

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Priyanka: Do you think that you would've still come to the U.S. if it wasn't for your marriage?

 

Pramila: I would, and I was trying. I mean, this option came early. But yes. Since I was completing my bachelor's around the second year, I was planning to come here to go to school. That was the other plan, but I guess plan A worked out.

 

Priyanka: As you were coming to Nepal, you just got married, a lot of big changes happening–

 

Pramila: Oh yeah. Completely changed. Yes. Completely changed.

 

Priyanka: How did you feel about all that? And before you came here, what were your expectations, what were you thinking about as you were making this journey preparing for all this?

 

Pramila: Back home, the U.S. it's a dreamland. So, when you come here for the first time, you don't realize all the struggles that come along with the dreamland. Back home, you are a daughter, you have all the luxury that you can have, right. Somebody else does everything for you. You are a daughter, so you don't have to worry about anything, you don't have to do anything.

So we are a middle class family, with some struggle, but it's not that hard. Since you're just going to college, everything is there for you. Your parents do work hard for you. So that was given there. Then when you come to the U.S., you land in dreamland. But when it comes to reality, what you see on TV, on Facebook versus what is real, it's completely different. So for the first month, we go around, and we have some fun. But once you settle down, once you know how things work, then that's completely different than what you see on TV.

 

Sudeep: So obviously coming here as a student, for me particularly, there were so many things that were going to change. The whole landscape of where I grew up versus what it is here. You can't go anywhere without a car. That was one thing. The other thing is that you need money now, for everything that you need. Starting with, where you want to live, how are you going to pay for college? Where are you going to find the work to pay for it? The other thing is cultural shock. Obviously I could not celebrate Tihar and all these celebrations that go on. And every time that Christmas and Thanksgiving would come, I would be sort of depressed just because I would miss my parents. I would miss my mom's good food and all those things. I mean, you miss your culture, you miss your society, and you are somewhere, a brand new place. People don't even understand you, because when you talk, you have an accent. So you have to go through a lot of struggles and hurdles to get over it. It takes time for people, but key to my survival is persistence, and hope that I had, where I knew that one day I would be successful and get to live the American dream. I ended up doing that and I'm doing that now. So it took a while, but I will eventually be there.

Priyanka: That comes up a lot when you're talking to a lot of immigrants, the American dream. So you say now, looking back, you see how far you've come, but I guess going back to the first days, when you guys both were here as a couple. I know you were here a little bit before, but it's definitely different when you have someone else. And so can you--for both of you--can you talk about how you went about starting to build that life together and looking towards reaching that American dream?

 

Sudeep: Absolutely. I would say something first, which is the classic cultural difference between Western societies and Eastern societies. Back in Nepal, arranged marriages are still popular. Here, they don't even think about it, although they talk about dating and all that nowadays. So the thing to me was when I tried to find someone that I would like to date or marry, I didn't have very good luck. So then luckily I met her sister and when I was going there, I didn't have her in mind, particularly. So I was gonna go there just with this very specific goal of getting married. A lot, a lot of Nepali people do that. The guys and girls still do that these days. So 22 years ago, I went back to Nepal and since I talked to her sister, I went to see her. I thought, she's good looking, was going to school, thought she was mature when I talked to her the first time and that was it. So I decided to take that chance in my life. After hanging out for a week, I wouldn't even call it a date, for a week, we got married. Unfortunately she could not come. And I had to wait for a year for a visa and finally she came with me. That was now getting to know each other. It's like for here, people here, they date and they know they get to know each other. They spend time together, they live together and then finally figure out whether they wanna get married or not. But in our Eastern society, what happens is you sort of start that process of getting to know each other after you get married. That to me is a wonderful experience because then you start to learn about this other person, but also you start to like, change yourself.

Now, suddenly you have to know what she likes, what she doesn't like, or how she sets up her priorities and where you can help, or how you set up your priorities. Growing together as a couple and being successful in life with children. Since you've decided to get married and live together, life gives you a chance to sort of save yourself up, and meet that challenge by doing things that you have to do from changing manners and process on your own.

 

Pramila: He mentioned that he took a chance. What about me? It's the same thing. I was a daughter and all of a sudden, now I'm a wife. I have to handle everything and anything. It's a complete role change. My parents did everything for me. So I just had to go to school, have fun, and study. That's all. Now the role has completely changed. I came to the dreamland, my husband, he was already there. My sister, they were already there. At least the support system was there for me so I didn't have to think about all those things. I was a daughter and the switch was completely different now. I'm a wife. There is a house that I have to handle. There are things that I need to take care of. My parents took care of everything. I didn't even have to worry about the bills and all those things. Here I have to manage everything. So that was a completely different role. But I guess we survived and we are here today. So we managed well.

 

Sudeep: They say that it takes a village.

 

Pramila: It has been 22 years now. So new life in a new country.

 

Priyanka: I'm sure as when you were here, you missed your mom and dad.

 

Pramila: So much. Yes. Yes, definitely. I mean the first three months, it was really hard for me for the first three months. After that, I got used to it and for two years, I used to say I'm gonna go back one day. I'm not gonna stay here. I used to feel that way. I used to say that now, I mean, 22 years later, I'm here now, my kids are grown up, and I don't think I can go and stay back there. I don't think I can go back and live there without my kids, without my parents. I mean, everybody's here now. So I feel like this is my home now.

But back then, for the first three months, it was very hard for me to settle down in this new place, alone in the house, and we used to go to work. I was by myself in the apartment and all these new things, the culture, driving especially. I'm here and I don't know how to drive. And if you don't know how to drive, it's like you are without a leg. So you can't do anything. I used to keep thinking to myself, this is temporary, I'm gonna go back home. So that will be my home. I'm here temporarily, to make a good life, to make good money so that I can go back and enjoy life. So that was in my head.

 

Sudeep: I sort of had that idea in mind too. If I have a lot of money, then I can go back and just retire. But before I am wealthy and successful, I'm not going to retire. The other thing is as far as what I bring with me, from Nepal perspective is love for your country. The cultural aspect of what we do as a community. I miss those. Every wedding festival. You miss all those people getting married.

 

Pramila: You were part of that. Over here, it just lasts for a day. Can you imagine 15 days versus one day?

 

Sudeep: That's impossible. That's not gonna happen until I force myself to celebrate and then find people that also don't have to work or manage businesses. But that's not gonna happen. That's not realistic here, but back home, it still is. For the first 10 years, I would still continue to miss that part of culture and celebration and all those putting on tikka with family. Even having bhai tikka with my sister. So those are big deals to me. But then, I thought about, hey, how can I do something here to sort of build our community, to have a home away from home. So after graduating and when you're a student, it's kind of hard to work on things like that. Because you have to be focused on your studying, research, and working on papers and all that. So it's kind of hard and then you have to maintain your grade. After getting a job and coming to Dallas, I started to miss my fellow countrymen more.

Now I'm new to the place. The only friends that I knew were the friends from work. I felt lonely and all that. So looking for people that I can hang out with, I found some friends here locally, and back when I first came here to Texas, I think that the whole Nepali community probably was around 1800 to 2,500. That has grown to be, I think honestly, it's more than a hundred thousand now. But, that is up for debate. So don't quote me on that. I'm pretty sure it's more than 60,000 Nepali people.

So back in 1997, I found a few friends that had similar interests, and they wanted to bring Nepali people together and celebrate our culture.The new year, Dashain, Tihar, Teej for Nepali women, and also help the community. Whatever their needs are.

And we ended up founding Nepalese Society in Texas (NST). So I am a founding member of that organization. We founded this organization in a restaurant in Irving, with maybe 10, 15 people that we got together. Nepalese Society Texas still thrives right now in the area and has become a good example for other Nepalese organizations around the country. I started the conversation around what we can do to help the community. Local focus was on Nepal before, and now it's diverting to Nepal as well. Just because we've gotten bigger and we have more resources, more people are wealthier in Texas. Thank goodness for that. We progressed a lot.

So then I found what I was looking for with those friends when we formed NST. We did celebrate Dashain, we did celebrate Tihar, the Nepali new year, along with the English new year, of course, and obviously helped people when people were in need.

If somebody died, we were there. So like how they say going to “malami”, in Nepal. We were there to go with them for that final funeral, as a community of course. The whole community became their family. When somebody got sick, we raised money, donations suddenly started pouring in, and we supported each other. We got together with business people. If there was a need for someone to learn how to do business or how to start a business, then some mentorship was already available. So things like that. We started that process.

 

Priyanka: It's really wonderful that you found this community here. How do you guys celebrate our traditions and things like that?

 

Sudeep: Nepal has many festivals, especially us Hindus. We celebrate things all the time. Starting in summer, then that goes into the deep winter. So we can't do all of that here, but again given the time that we have available. Teej for example, there's a community celebration where the women in the community come together. There's a priest, who sits there and does the puja. There is a temple and there are so many priests that we have. Culturally all the festivals that we celebrate back home, get celebrated here. There are three things we religiously celebrate, which is Dashain as a community, and the Nepali and English new year. We've started to celebrate Holi as well, which is not a typical Nepali thing. But there are many Nepalis that celebrate Holi as well. It's a festival of color. It's joyful. And I think we adapted well with that because, Nepalese people naturally love to celebrate. Then there are businesses that we have now. There are so many Nepalese restaurants. If you want to eat Nepali food, and you don't feel like cooking at home, you don't have to go to another immigrant restaurant or Indian restaurant. We have our own restaurants that we can go to eat.

 

Pramila: Recently, there have been lots of changes. Back in 2000, 2001, we hardly had any options. It was hard, if you want to go eat Nepali food, you have to enjoy the Indian restaurant.

 

Sudeep: Where can you eat momo? Where can you eat gundruk?

 

Pramila: Now you can find places. Back then, no.

 

Sudeep: Where can you find thekwa the way that we make it? There are lots of options there now. Wonderful restaurants run by Nepali people.

 

Pramila: Now the community is growing, it's a hundred thousand plus probably. Okay. In Euless itself, I have heard that there are forty thousand.

 

Priyanka: You guys have been here for a while, so you've seen it kind of grow and take it from what it was, to what it is now. I think it's wonderful. Just Nepali restaurants and everything. I think it's definitely a testament to the community in Texas here, because in a lot of places in the U.S., at least where I'm from, there's definitely not that big of a community.

As you were building your lives here, I guess another big change is just having kids. So you have two sons now, and being a mother, being a father, it's also a huge change. Especially, as you were here as you didn't have as much of a support system. So can you talk about what that was like and how you thought about keeping your kids connected with the culture and just managing all that here?

 

Pramila: Definitely it was a different role. In 2000, I got married. 2001 I came here to a completely different world. Then in 2001, I had my son. Things were moving very fast. At the same time, I was going to school too. It's too many things on my plate. So I had a baby. It was a completely different experience. Oh, baby's here. Okay. And then in laws, they came here. So I had some help for a year. After a year, what next? I had to think about all those things, because at the same time I was working, I was a mother, I was a student. All three things on the same plate, it's hard for a woman.

Especially for men, it's easy. They can take it easily. But when it comes to your plate as a mom, you have to make some of the decisions. What am I gonna do? How am I gonna handle this? At the same time, you are trying to build a better life for you, your family, and your kids. So how can you do that? I had Bikal (her oldest son) in 2001. Then I had some help for a year, but after a year, how am I gonna manage? Because I have to go to work. I have to go to school. And I still have to be a mom. I can't do three things all the time.

So my mom offered me some help. Okay. I can take your kid, and my mom, she was already here. You can stay here for a year, and after a year you do have to go back. So to extend the visa there's a process. So people can't live here continuously for more than one year. So she couldn't stay here. My in-laws couldn't stay here. So the only choice that I had is either quit my job and just take care of the baby and go to school in the evening or morning, whatever works based on your husband's schedule. Bikal was the first grandchild on my side, and he was very pampered. And my mom, she had seven daughters. I'm the first daughter with the first grandson. He's the first boy.

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Sudeep: She's the first one to get married. She was in a hurry to get married.

 

Pramila: And then he's [her son Bikal] the first boy in the family. My mom was really excited. I mean, he is the spoiled most pampered grandkid.

Then I was like, "Okay, I'm going to school. I'm working. I'm trying to build our life". [My husband] goes to work. And it's my mom. I trust her completely because I was raised by her. It's my mom, who is the best that I could ask for. Right. And she said, "I can take him back home. I can bring him back in six months", because at the time, you had to stay back home for six months to come back here. I said, okay, that's fine. Because I completely trust her. So I sent him back so that I could continue my school, my job, everything that I was doing

So we were building our life. He came back after, after six months. He did that a couple of times. He went back home three times with my mom. Yes, there are daycares, but who do I trust more? My parents or daycare? So I picked my parents over daycare. Because that was comfort for me. So they were happy. I was happy. Let's do it. So he went back and forth for almost three years.

 

Sudeep: The thing is, I don't think anybody is prepared to be a parent.

 

Pramila: I mean, you can be a parent, but you don't realize the responsibility until you're actually holding a baby in your hands.

 

Sudeep: I don't care how many books you read. There is another book that gives you the Goldilocks approach in parenting. Meaning when you become a parent the first time. I think everybody has their own scenario. That is a wonderful experience. So having gone from just being a couple to have this child in your hands, I just couldn't believe that this kid was born. And I see a piece of me in my hand. Greatest experience in the world. I still get goosebumps. So I think that is how I felt. And I was a little nervous because I didn't know whether I would be a good parent or do things right. With any parents, I think that's the fear that they have. Which is always a good thing to have, because you care about your children. Eventually, you do things based on what you know. Mostly making sure that they get good enough sleep, keep feeding them, and based on the weather, you dress them appropriately. They get sick, take them to the doctor, get all the vaccinations that are recommended.

 

Pramila: As a parent, we all try our best to do the best for our kids. That's all we try. Best to give them anything and everything that we could do.

 

Sudeep: I think every parent has best wishes for their children. So for a parent, it's like what is it that I need to do so that my kid will grow up to be healthy, wealthy, and have a successful life. It's not, it's not really about the culture for me.

 

Pramila: No, I want him to follow my culture. I'm Hindu. When I go to temple, I try to take him, he doesn't even believe in God. But for me as a mom, I want to at least say, okay we are in a temple. I was raised in this culture. I want you at least not to blindly follow a hundred percent. But at least when I'm there, come with me, go with me. I mean be there with me at least. I mean, know a little bit about the culture, but this guy it's hard to make him understand.

 

Sudeep: So what I was trying to say though, is when you help a responsible kid grow, and that person turns out to be decent. I think they care about things like culture and your own people in your community. Not just talking about Nepali community, you have to take care of the country here as well. We have some responsibilities to the U.S. because you're a citizen. My son was born a citizen, like you are, so you guys have some responsibility to this country. The uniqueness that we have is we bring a different flavor to our culture, a background. That's a wonderful thing to have, but at the same time, we also have a responsibility to be a good citizen, stay productive, and help the country in some way.

 

Pramila: See it's good to be a good citizen and to be responsible. Do good in your life. But at least along with that, have some Nepali culture too. My thing is to at least have some Nepali culture in you. Okay. So you are born and raised in a Nepali family. Are you being good citizens? Be a good citizen, good human. Help people. Totally fine. Right. But have some little bit Nepali, have something that makes you Nepali.

 

Sudeep: That's the uniqueness that these kids have.

 

Pramila: It's not that he doesn't go to temple. He goes to the temple with me. Right. But when you are in a temple, believe in God. At least make it feel like you are believing in God. Don't make me feel like, you are dragging me here. Mamu I'm here because of you. That's not what I want. I want you to feel it. The temple is there for a reason, people don't build a temple just for no reason. We have a culture. We have a reason. Just try to understand a little bit. When he was a kid, he was good. He used to go to temples. He used to do everything I asked. Now, when he's 20 years old, he is like, “Ma I'm doing this for you. I don't believe in this.” Not believing is not a bad thing either. It's okay.

 

Sudeep: The U.S. is a land of immigrants. So we fit right into that category. That's the uniqueness about where we come from and how we share our culture, not only within our own community, but also to folks here. They enjoy Nepali food. They like momo. They like to come and see how we celebrate holy festivals and things like that. If we don't bring that culture, and our uniqueness to this country, then they will be oblivious to that.

 

Priyanka: I think you said it really well a couple minutes ago, for a lot of kids, like Bikal and I, who were born here, but raised in very Nepali families or our parents came from other countries. There's a lot of flavors. We are navigating our cultural Nepali identity, but also our American. There's just always gonna be both. I think it's really wonderful that we have these experiences. For you all, there was also a lot of navigating of these same cultures, but in very different ways. It's kind of a closing question for both of you, as you were navigating these dual identities and you had kids and, you know you were spending more years in the U.S., can you recall a particular moment, particular time, when that kind of transition happened, where you felt, I'm gonna stay here. This is my home. This is where I can call home. Was it a particular moment or do you feel it was just maybe kind of a gradual change?

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Sudeep: Like when I came to the U.S. back in 91, my goal was to be successful, have an education, career and wealth at the end of the day. And maybe when I retire, I can go back and live in the community and do something for the community. But that was gonna be after I retired. But over time as I stayed here, what happens is this becomes your home. You have family here and this is your home. A lot of things that we have, like you have your house, you have some of these things that you are used to, the efficiency perspective, here versus Nepal, political situation, the growth and development, and all that. So since I've been here for so long and my kids are gonna be here for their schooling, their career, and eventually, they'll probably live here too. This is their country. So that brings another challenge, which is now I cannot think of going back and living in Nepal for my retirement, because I'll be so far away from my children. And I don't want to do that. Wherever they live. We have two of them, so I don't know who we will favor but we will be close to one of them. So we'll probably move. If they go to live in San Francisco, we'll buy something and move there. So because of the love of the children, and because of the things that we are now used to here in the U.S., I don't think I will ever be able to go back and live in Nepal permanently.

But I do have my country in mind. I will do things to make sure I am at least helping in some way. So yeah, I would definitely not be a stranger or very far away from the country and forget about Nepal and Nepali people. I'll be very close and I'll be frequently traveling to Nepal and trying to do things that I can do.

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Pramila: For me, I guess this was a gradual process. First three months, I didn't want to stay. I wanted to go back right then. After a year we said, okay, let's just work for a couple of years, let's just save some money, get an education, make ourselves better. Then we'll go back in a couple of years. After two, three years, then your kids. Once they start going to school, then you understand everything. You go to school, your kids have school. You are done with your school. You go back to work, then your life is busy. Then you adapt to the environment. First time you come from not knowing anything versus now you are here for a couple of years, you know the process, you know the system, your kids go to. You go to a job, you have friends, you have a circle now, right? So things have changed now compared to five years ago. So things changed for me. My parents, they came here, my sisters, they are here now. I feel like this is my home. Definitely it's a big change.

 

Priyanka: Your sisters are also here now. All seven of them?

 

Pramila: Yes, my parents they're here. So for me and now me and my kids being here and there, I don't think they will go back and live back there. So they'll be visitors back home. I don't think I can go back leaving them here and be by myself there. So I guess it's a permanent home now. I'll be a visitor back home. It didn't happen overnight, but 20 years. I guess now this is my permanent house. That's my dreamland to go visit.

 

Priyanka: Thank you. Thank you both so much for the interview.